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Канал X3: Reunion: «Фабрики, практика, советы»
doreka
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AlexYar :
doreka :
Но стоимость солярки 4лимона что помоему многовато


Я за 1.200.000 видел Подозрение.

наверно от уровня сложности зависит
я на нормале играю
    Добавлено: 13:08 07-11-2005   
Vic3Dexe
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2AndyJ & axf
Народ, опишите параметры станций - почем продаете и закупочная цена на батареи. А то поставил тоже в Home of Light, а брать по 40 не хотят, развожу ручками Расстроен
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I'll be back... (c)
    Добавлено: 13:21 07-11-2005   
AlexYar
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doreka :
Я за 1.200.000 видел

наверно от уровня сложности зависит
я на нормале играю


А я на x-treme Улыбка

Цена зависит от модификации станции. Так же от модификации станции зависят размер трюма станции и её производительность (в меню станции написано может быть х1, либо х2, либо х4 и прочее).
    Добавлено: 14:38 07-11-2005   
norfolk_s3d
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Группенфюрер
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а солярки х1, х5 и х10.
_________________
Девушка, а как вы относитесь к национал-патриотизму?..
    Добавлено: 20:53 07-11-2005   
Пассажир
 

Пассажир




попадалась солярка за 19 лимонов Вау!
    Добавлено: 00:45 08-11-2005   
axf
 





Vic3Dexe :
2AndyJ & axf
Народ, опишите параметры станций - почем продаете и закупочная цена на батареи. А то поставил тоже в Home of Light, а брать по 40 не хотят, развожу ручками Расстроен


пшено: 39 (при себестоимости 23)
батарейки 15
максимум прыжков: 1

А не берут скорее всего потому, что у фабрик-потребителей нет своих транспортов.
    Добавлено: 07:50 08-11-2005   
Vic3Dexe
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Хм.. цены примерно те же (40/16), что я не так делаю?
Кораблей нету, да. Я вообще ни у одной станции не видел Owned Ships.
А у вас как разгребают тогда? Озадачен
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I'll be back... (c)
    Добавлено: 11:06 08-11-2005   
Slayer
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Vic3Dexe:
В Х3 у фабрик нет транспортов на поставку товаров.
Все развозят свободные торговцы.
_________________
Вечная память Марику!
    Добавлено: 11:15 08-11-2005   
Vic3Dexe
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Slayer
Об этом я догадался Улыбка
Просто люди сначала пишут, что у них расхватывают, а на мой вопрос, почему у меня не берут, отвечают:
Цитата:
А не берут скорее всего потому, что у фабрик-потребителей нет своих транспортов.

Вот я и пытаюсь понять - у них что ли есть? Совсем запутался...
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I'll be back... (c)
    Добавлено: 11:29 08-11-2005   
Варсик
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Нет, просто они отрядили кораблик на торговлю произвелённой продукцией.
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WARNING: By reading this post you accept that this post is genius.
    Добавлено: 14:53 08-11-2005   
Andy J
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Батарейки покупаю по... Вроде 17. Продаю по 36, но думаю повысить цену, уж слишком хорошо берут Улыбка Корабль у меня только на закупку батареек.
    Добавлено: 17:51 08-11-2005   
spaun1
 





AlexYar
Где?
    Добавлено: 18:02 08-11-2005   
AndreiRoz
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В начале игры я заметил , что в аргонских секторах напряг с кремнеим.Я купил кремневую шахту и поставил её Ore Belt (так как кроме жирного астероида там имеется две солярки)на астероиде с ресурсом 64 единицы. К моменту когда я поставил кремневую шахту я уже проапгрейдил мой Меркурий и поставил Прыжковый двигатель. Шахта получилась класная , кремний производит по 10 ед. , только иуспавай подвозить батарейки.
Далее начал продавать кремний (по 700 рулей и выше) сам с помощью Меркурия который повторяю имеет Прыжковый двигатель.
    Добавлено: 19:34 08-11-2005   
AlexYar
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Andy J :
Батарейки покупаю по... Вроде 17. Продаю по 36


Максимальноая цена батарей то-ли 20, то-ли 21 кредит, поэтому по 36 ты никак не можешь их продавать Улыбка
    Добавлено: 19:50 08-11-2005   
Tantis
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AlexYar :

Максимальноая цена батарей то-ли 20, то-ли 21 кредит, поэтому по 36 ты никак не можешь их продавать Улыбка


батарейки максимум по 19, а по 36 он продает пшено Подмигиваю
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--MAY THE SCHWARTZ BE WITH YOU ((c)YOGURT "Spaceballs")--
    Добавлено: 19:55 08-11-2005   
Deadly Fugitive
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Народ, напишите, плиз, время цикла пшёнки, а тоя до игрухи до сих пор добраться не могу. Улыбка
Andy J :
Батарейки покупаю по... Вроде 17. Продаю по 36

если время цикла не изменилось, то это 6300 кр. в час доход Подозрение. Так? Тогда есть смысл вообще в подобном производстве? Ёклмн, теперь в этом канале об экономике без цифр рассуждаем.
Вот доберусь я до игрухи... Хы...
    Добавлено: 22:06 08-11-2005   
AlexYar
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По ходу все циклы и разбросы цен поменялись, соот-но доходы надо заново рассчитывать с каждой фабрики и её модификации.

Кто ставит свою фабу сразу выкладывайте данные по техпроцессу с указанием модификации фабрики (М,L, XL и проч.)!
    Добавлено: 23:51 08-11-2005   
Selek
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AndreiRoz :
В начале игры я заметил , что в аргонских секторах напряг с кремнеим.Я купил кремневую шахту и поставил её Ore Belt (так как кроме жирного астероида там имеется две солярки)на астероиде с ресурсом 64 единицы. К моменту когда я поставил кремневую шахту я уже проапгрейдил мой Меркурий и поставил Прыжковый двигатель. Шахта получилась класная , кремний производит по 10 ед. , только иуспавай подвозить батарейки.
Далее начал продавать кремний (по 700 рулей и выше) сам с помощью Меркурия который повторяю имеет Прыжковый двигатель.


Слушай!! а дай плиз координаты этого астера жирненького? ато какая то гиморная стала стстема сканирования.... замучаешься сканить!)))
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Дело в том, что в этом то всё и дело!
    Добавлено: 00:33 09-11-2005   
Hendalf
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Вот ссылка на толковый буржуйский мануал по экономике Х3.
особенно интересен раздел посвященный созданию комплексов фабрик с учетом практически всех нынеприсутствующих багов и подводных камней...

http://www.respawn.co.uk/content/view/317/70/

может те у кого голова свежее и не забита пока игрой Х3 переведут эту часть про комплексы?

Да простят меня модеры, но я скопирую сюда этот мануал пока страница его содержащая не пропала - они имеют такую привычку...

Цитата:
The X3 Economy Guide.
Guide Version 1 (X3 V1.2)
Introduction.
Initial fears for X3 was that because of the distance the player needed to travel to trade anything combined with the extremely high prices of stuff, it was going to be harder to make money. Exploring the Universe first allows you to see what markets exist first. If you drop satellites in key sectors such as those that contain Equipment docks, you will find it easy to track prices and stocks. That helps solve the problem of wasted travel time over 2 or 3 sectors and helps the player make a profit more often than not. With out exploration it is a long frustrating process of trial and error and not fun at all.

The early game sees the player trading energy and food for between 10,000 credits profit or and 30,0000 profit. Which seems a lot compared to the 5000 to 8000 profits of X2, but since everything is more expensive now because of the price increases and the distance, it all kind of evens out. What has changed though is the economy. Instead of manual trading being a route to getting your first factory, in X3 it is both fun and very very profitable. No 10 factories can make the same kind of profit as the player can in X3. So manual trading is probably something you will do a lot in X3, even in the late game.

A freighter with a jump drive becomes a must and whilst your trading lots of small items like Energy cells, you will find the bigger the freighter the better. You can get freighters with cargo holds that are upgradeable to 13,0000 in size, making your first Mercury's 3000 cargo hold look rather small. The biggest Mercury has a max cargo hold of 11,000 cargo units and the only thing more scary than docking one of those babies is undocking next to another large freighter. We are talking brown trouser time here, good fun though. Улыбка

Trouble is, those freighters, especially the big ones are sitting ducks for pirates. So you really need to upgrade them all the way and perhaps even have an escort of fighters if you can afford them. Never assume 5x 25MJ shields off protection for more than 20 seconds. They do not, even a small group of Pirate Harriers can easily take care of your shields. So think about taking missiles and drones for protection and do not rely on your freighters weapons. Especially any PSG based weapons. I found even a Harrier carries weapons that have a greater range than PSGs do.

A good change in X3 is that you do feel like your getting somewhere trading manually now, the long boring start of game phase has been replaced by a new system that allows you to earn money much faster and get embroiled in the best side of X3. The factory ownership side. Yet because manual trading is actually very profitable, it remains lots of fun and the primary source of income for the player. It more or less makes using seta to earn money over night a poor substitute for doing it your self. Which is as it should be. Capturing is also a poor substitute for trading too, which makes a nice change. Despite this, the big ships still require you to work hard to get the money for them so nothing has really changed except the player is having more fun in the mean time.

Once your game says you have played for a day or so, the economy starts to change. It stabilizes and food and energy stocks begin to rise everywhere. Making them less profitable and forcing the player to look at other goods. X2 players will fear this moment because there was not much else worth trading in X2. Thankfully in X3 there are bargains in almost every sector and the usual path for traders is vastly different in X3. So our first part of the guide covers an area that may change in future patches. So having it in one section makes it very easy for me to update later Улыбка

The way of the economy through a new freighter pilots eyes.
Players start off trading energy and food and them move on to Hi tech goods. After that you can move on to weapons and very expensive goods. Trading food is nothing like trading Hi Tech goods and trading Hi tech goods is nothing like trading weapons. For starts you can make a living out of trading solely in any one of those areas, which was impossible in X2. But the requirements and the funding needed to do it increases when you start trading in new items. So lets look at the basic requirements for each of those areas.

Idiots guide to buying and selling prices.

If your not good at figures, always buy from factories that are fully stocked and always sell to factories that are empty. This will give you maximum profits with every trade run you make.

Food and Energy Trader Requirements.

Starting Freighter, 20,000 Credits to get a good first load of energy.

Hi Tech Trader Requirements.

Starting Freighter 500,000 credits to buy a good load of Hi tech wares plus 1 jump drive

Arms Dealer Requirements.

Starting Freighter, 1 million Credits plus a jump drive and a very good knowledge of the universes Equipement Docks. .

When new players start playing X3, they will be Food and Energy Traders, as they earn more money and start exploring they will naturally begin to exploit holes in the economy and their profits will increase rapidly. Soon they will have enough to buy weapons on mass and at that point they will need to leave Argon space and trade around the universe. Effectively becoming Universal Arms Dealers. Whilst making 30k from the sale of Food and Energy (including costs) seems good at first, to an Arms dealer 850,000 pure profit from selling weapons during the same kind of time frame as the new player would take to sell food is more like it.

I know what your thinking, why bother with food, why not for weapons first. Well you do not have cash for starters and your reputation is too low as well. But once you have a high enough reputation with one race to buy high priced weapons, you should be able to sell them any where you can dock.

Lets have a look at good trading areas for each of these categories of traders, Something to get you started.

Food and Energy Trader.

Argon Beef, needed by Cahoona Bakeries in Home of Light and Cloud Base South West is available in large quantities from Ringo Moon and Cloud Base North West.

Energy Cells are available in large Quantities in The Wall, Ore Belt and Power Circle.

Hi Tech Trader.

Computer components, Microchips, Satellites and Drones as well as Crystals make up this category. Without doubt Argon Prime and Red Light are the best places to buy from and a good place to sell is most Trading stations.

Arms Dealer.

A good starting place is Cloud Base South East, start trading Ammo between that sector any all Equipment docks in Argon space. Then when you hit the minimum 1 million Credits requirement. Explore the universe looking for Equipment docks to sell to and start looking for weapons you can sell quickly and easily. Any Equipement Dock that does not usually sell a weapon will still accept that weapon if sold by the player, which is useful to know when you want to dump some weapons you cannot sell else where. Shields seem to be forgotten by the AI so they are easier to sell that weapons. Arms dealing can eat up millions of your credits per load so you might want to keep a spare 3 million credits handy at all times. Btw Sector Getsu Fune has lots of Equipment Docks and they are usually not well stocked. So jumping between Cloud Base South East and Getsu Fume will give you your first taste of the kind of profits you can make dealing Arms in the X3 universe.

If you ever spend most of your 3 million float and are left with hardly anything, start trading food again until you can move up to Hi tech stuff, then once you have 1 million credits again, move up to Arms dealing. It is better to buy weapons that are offered at a good price on sight and worry about selling them later. It may eat up all your money but selling them is just a question of finding an empty equipement dock. Some times you will be able to buy and sell goods in the same sector and other times you will find certain weapons are far too common to be easy to sell. Such weapons should be brought in lower numbers, eg do not buy a factories entire stock. Just a couple so you can make a few bucks of them when the operunity arises.

Trader Types and Factory Ownership.

Its worth considering where each type of trader will be selling their factory goods. Food and Energy Traders can sell locally, as can Hi Tech Traders but Arms Dealers will usually have to sell at much greater distances. Whilst they may make a lot of money, they will have to earn that cash by taking their stock and selling it manually or allowing their freighters to travel further to sale them automatically. Which is not a bad thing. High profits should come from hard work. So before you decide if you want to specialize or not, you will need to consider all of this. Later if you do become an Arms dealer, it should very easier to have all your weapons sent to 1 place for pickup and resale by you.

Factories and Complexes.
The Complexities of Complexes.

The Complexes in X3 are far from finished. They need so much more work that some sort of guide is needed to explain how to avoid typical problems Complexes present to the player. Listed below are some of the issues Complexes present when the player does not consider his factory placements or prior trade the factory has done.

1) Docking for the AI is difficult if not impossible.
2) Navigating around the complex is hard for all ships.
3) Autopilot causes the players ship to ram the complex due to bad docking positions and badly placed complex tubing..
4) Yoyo style docking occurs after the complex is extended to include more factories. Meaning even though your freighters can dock. It takes them many attempts before they actually do dock.
5) Factories in the complex make a constant banging sound because they where placed so close to each other that they are actually touching.
6) Wrong primary product on sale.
7) AI is able to buy a resource your complex uses and you cannot stop it without stopping all AI trade with a complex.

Those faults are what I am hoping to help you avoid in this section by helping the reader understand the mechanics of X3 Complexes. It is highly likely this chapter will change considerably in future patches as issues are fixed.

Notes on Complexes Primary and Interim Products.

Before I baffle you with the detail you had better know now that a Primary product is a product your freighters can sell in a complex and a product the AI can buy from your complex if allowed. Interim products that are not listed as Primary products are not sold by your freighters or brought by the AI.

I have noticed that any factory that is already producing goods when it becomes part of a complex, usually has its product listed as a primary product in the final Factory Complex instead of having its product listed as an interim product. For example, if you built a solar power plant loop. Then after it had been running a while, converted it into a Complex when all the food factories, Solar power plants and Crystal fabs already had stock. Then all of their products would be available to sell from the finished complex. However, if you build a complex out of brand new factories then the end products on sale would not be known until you actually built the complex, usually only end of the line products are available. Which makes it hard to build a complex that would produce and sell energy out of a solar power plant loop.

So you must let the factories you want to sell products from in a loop do some trading before joining them to a Complex. Clearing out stock from those you do not want to sell goods as a primary product before joining them to a Complex may work but I have not tested it my self.

Now if you join 2 brand new factories together so one supplies the other e.g. a Cattleranch and a Cahoona Bakery. Then the game will correctly identify the Cattle Ranch as a supplier of interim an product and not offer Argon Beef as a primary product. Only Meat Stakes made at the Cahoonery Bakery will be offered for sale as a primary product.

What if we add a factory to that Food Complex that uses Meatstakes as an interim product ?

Well, Cahoona Meat Stakes remain on sale as a primary product along side the new product from the factory that requires Meat Stakes as a resource. So once a product is a primary product, it will always remain a primary product. What is worse is you cannot selectively say what part of the complex the AI can trade with.

Factory Placements for Complexes.

Now you about products and interim products, lets take a look at how to connect factories together. I will assume you have 4 factories named A, B, C, D.

Connect A to B and then choose a good spot for the docking part of the complex. Since this will be used for the entire complex from this moment on. You do not want it too close to the factories or in any area your likely to expant your Complex in. I usually place it far below my factory complex and try not to build below the current factory complex line. So the docking area (Complex Hub) seems to hang down below the complex like a spider on a thread.

Now we need to connect C and D and this presents us with our first design problem.

Do we connect A to C and then A to D ?

No because we know we have 2 factories to join to the complex and each factory that joins directly to the complex requires a tube to touch that complex hub at some point. So we join C and D together first, then join A to C. This gives us a far better complex layout since 1 tube goes from C to D and another goes from A to C Instead of all 3 factories connecting to A like a giant spiders web.

Of course you will probably add more factories later individually so how can you be sure not to make a mess ?

Well you cannot to be honest but you can reduce the risk of a mess by placing all the factories to be in a complex in one long line.

E.G.

A B C D

Will look like this as a complex

A-B---C-D

So if we add another factory we need to place it at the end of D like this.

A-B---C-D---E.

This ensures it connects to D because D is the closest point. Notice I put 3 dashes in between B and C and D and E ?

It means a bigger gap than normal should be left, do not attempt to neatly place all your factories in a tight little group. It just leads to problems mentioned above.

Designing your own Super Factory AKA Complexes.

Know you know of some of problems associated with Complexes lets lay down some ground rules.

1) All factories to be included in a complex should be placed in a line.
2) If dealing with 4 or more factories. Always connect factories in groups of 2, E.G. A&B, C&D first. Then connect the 2 pairs together to make a bigger complex.
3) Always put the docking bay far out of the way of the primary complex area so docking accidents do not occur.
4) Let any factory you want to sell primary products run for a while before connecting them to your complex.
5) Remember, products not used in your complex will always be primary products e.g. Microchips, Missiles, Weapons, Shields etc.

Now you know the rules lets design our own factory and take in to account some other game features at the same time.

OK we want our first Complex to make missiles, so lets look at what we need.

1 Cattle Ranch.
1 Cahoona Bakery.
1 Wheat Farm.
1 Rimes Fac.
1 Warhead Facility.
1 Missile Factory (you choose what missile you want to make).
1 Ore Mine.
1 Solar Power Plant.
1 Crystal Fab.
1 Silicon Mine.

Since I have no idea at this time if Mines can be connected to a complex, we will not connect them to our Missile Complex. As you can see, our Complex is entirely self contained except for Ore and Silicon. So we only need 2 Freighters to buy up those goods and our Complex will work. What is even better is the float you must leave in the complex needs only cover the cost of what your freighters are buying. E.G. you do not need to add 100,000 for every factory in the complex. You need only add enough to buy Ore and Silicon.

OK about now your thinking there's a catch right ?

Yup, your not buying a lot from the AI factories, so your reputation with the races will not go up much except when you sell stuff to them. Trouble is selling is a slow process, so your basically increasing in rank only when you can make a sale. Plus that lot will cost millions. So lets cut it down to just factories that will help make missiles quickly and not include anything the AI can supply us easily.

1 Wheat Farm.
1 Rimes Fac.
1 Warhead Facility.
1 Missile Factory (you choose what missile you want to make).

To actually build the complex we place them in a line like so (checking the sector views horizontal and virtical placement when we place the factories).

Missile Factory, Warhead Facility, Rimes Fac, Wheat Farm.

Then we contect them line this.

Missile Factory--Warhead Facility---- Rimes Fac--Wheat Farm.

And below these we put the docking area.

Complex Hub (Docking area).

Now we just need freighters to buy Food, Energy and of course Ore. Whats even better is each time your freighters do buy goods, your reputation with the race increases slightly and brings you a little closer to the time when you can buy that M1 or M2, or even your own Equipment Dock.

So what have we learned. Well we know Complexes can become messy fast and we know how to make sure only the products we want to sell actually appear as primary products. We also know how to make sure our Complex helps boost our reputation with the other races.

_________________
Mornie alantie
    Добавлено: 05:32 09-11-2005   
lapd
 80 EGP

Репутация: 6
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Зарегистрирован: 30.10.2003
спасибо! не помешал бы еще переводик...
    Добавлено: 05:45 09-11-2005   
Канал X3: Reunion: «Фабрики, практика, советы»
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